r/Damnthatsinteresting Sep 22 '22 Silver 2 Helpful 3 Wholesome 2

Scene from 'Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story' compared to the actual trial in 1992 Video

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54.7k Upvotes

2.9k

u/rude-red-panda Sep 22 '22

If I hadn't seen the original clip I would have thought the scene was fake or over-exaggerated...but honestly it was spot-on.

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u/zedhenson Sep 22 '22 Helpful

For real. The only thing they changed was they added a beat before she moves over towards him, the dramatic pause is oddly the only unrealistic thing about the scene, the only “give away” that she’s acting, and that’s only because we already know it’s a performance. Amazing reenactment, profoundly believable performances by the whole cast in this one.

Having read My Friend Dahmer and then being disappointed by the film adaption, this Netflix series is doing a lot of good by making the conversation about how an opportunist can take advantage of the blind spots in our societal lens.

Jeffery Dahmer wouldn’t be a name synonymous with “evil” if racism, homophobia and a generally negative disposition towards mental health weren’t hallmarks of the time. This story shows us that our biases are our weaknesses, and what we neglect is opportunity for the atrophy of humanity.

Edit: A word.

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u/ABeastInThatRegard Sep 22 '22

This is very well worded. I wish more people understood this concept you are describing, I think it would foster personal responsibility.

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u/G0D_1S_D3AD Sep 22 '22

The Netflix one was somehow less expressive

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u/lactose_con_leche Sep 22 '22

Probably pulled back 5-10% because hardly anyone would believe the woman’s full body movements, but considering the situation, totally reasonable

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u/sfjc Sep 22 '22

I lived in Milwaukee at the time this went down, watched it all from the breaking news that showed barrels being taken out of the apartment through to the trial. This is the part that has stayed with me all these years. You could feel that poor woman's emotions through the TV. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was hoping she would manage to get over the table and wrap her hands around his neck.

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u/Setari Sep 22 '22

Bruh I felt that just hearing the 2022 one. I can't imagine the level of emotion that woman had in 1992. Definitely felt the "damn just let her kill him right there in the gd courtroom, better than letting him serve a sentence".

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u/Janitarium Sep 23 '22

I lived in Madison then, and it was all just so horrifying. Glad he got beat to death, it's exactly what he deserved.

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u/TexasLoriG Sep 23 '22

The pain was so visceral, so real. I am glad she got to express herself and I hope she has peace in her life.

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u/prism_tats Sep 22 '22

It's because the hair part is on the wrong side.

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u/Canvaverbalist Sep 23 '22

Reality is stranger than fiction.

That's why I roll my eyes at anybody on the internet watching videos and going "ugh, this is so fake, these people are bad actors" bitch people are bad at showing emotions, that's why actors are paid so much, because they know the language of cinema and how to make you believe it's real.

Point a camera at a real person going through real emotions and it's absolutely nothing like on screens lmao

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u/c0gvortex Sep 22 '22

I've only watched the first episode but Evan Peters is really good too, super creepy..

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u/Nerrevar Expert Sep 22 '22

He's great in AHS and it's nice to see him in more things

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u/Dwight- Sep 22 '22

Have you seen American Animals? Totally underrated film and Evan is so great in it. I like him in all of the projects he’s involved in, but this Dahmer series he’s been incredible.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22

His prime was still in Never Back Down, never quite got back to those heights.

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u/accidentallurker Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Nah, his prime was in Even Stevens

Edit: My bad, it was Phil of the future!! Still a solid show.

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u/LimeOfTheTooth Sep 22 '22

Nah, his prime was in The Office

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u/chevmonte76 Sep 22 '22

God, I hated him in that episode. He played the “entitled brat” role perfectly

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u/MymlanOhlin Sep 22 '22

I'll always have a soft spot for Seth Wosmer in Phil of the Future.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MymlanOhlin Sep 22 '22

Hahah, yes, Seth Wosmer was the character Evan Peters played on PotF. He was only in a handful of episodes, but he sort of stole the show whenever he appeared. Not bad for a 17 year old who only got cast as a minor supporting role!

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u/crucial_velocity Sep 22 '22

He nailed the voice. He sounds almost exactly the real Dahmer with that deadpan delivery and the thick midwestern accent.

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u/tgw1986 Sep 22 '22

As a Milwaukeean, I was very impressed by his accent. There were certain moments where I was like, "Damn, he really did his research and picked up on all the nuances." Like when he says "kinda" but pronounces it "kyanna" perfectly (there are more examples but that's the only one I remember). It was impressive.

And honestly, I was reluctant to watch the show because I feel like Dahmer has been done to death in pop culture (no pun intended) and I'm always disappointed (I might be alone in this, but I didn't really like My Friend Dahmer). But this show is amazing -- exactly what I was hoping for when I watched the other Dahmer dramatizations. It's so scary accurate in terms of what he looked like, sounded like, acted like, what his apartment looked like, his alcoholism, his neighbor lady, his dad, his mom, the cops -- I could go on and on. And unlike other Dahmer movies, this one is actually quite scary IMO. I'm only a couple episodes in, but as a true crime nerd and horror movie enthusiast I absolutely love it so far.

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u/Petrichordates Sep 22 '22

After his Delco accent in Mare of Easttown that's not surprising, Philly accents are notoriously difficult to pull off.

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u/Jsimpson059 Sep 22 '22

The comic book is so much better, Backderf actually went to school with him, and the comic gets what he was trying to say across alot better.

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u/nunya123 Sep 22 '22

What is the name of the comic?

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u/ghostofyourmom Sep 22 '22

My Friend Dahmer, same title.

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u/NvkedSnvke Sep 22 '22

Yea I love it too. I'm still sooo fucking pissed with Balcerzak and Gabrish. Such incompetence shouldn't be allowed to exist in law in enforcement. If I was the family of that poor boy I would have made sure the officers didn't get to live a long happy life.

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u/i-Ake Sep 24 '22

I was just a toddler when this happened... I had no idea that the reason he went on for so long was just down to police being racist, lazy and incompetent. They had everything they needed. People were screaming at them... but the fact that they were screaming made them decide to fuck with those who dared raise their voices over the fucking serial murderer. It makes sense. What is worse is finding out that Balcerzak was reinstated and became a union higher up after all of this. Their union is disgusting.

I knew who he was my whole life, but I never knew about the poor, gay and black connections to his killings. It changes everything.

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u/Feva130 Sep 22 '22

This show makes me wonder if Napoleon dynamite turned into a serial killer

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u/squidmanwillie Sep 22 '22

They are working on a sequel which the writer said was going to much darker so maybe.

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u/Heavydumper69 Sep 22 '22

Really? I heard years ago that Jon Heder refused to film a sequel saying that it would ruin the essence of the original movie. Like it didn’t really “need” a sequel. I could be wrong though; this was years ago

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u/squidmanwillie Sep 22 '22

That must have been before his career went into the toilet

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u/Adrialic Sep 22 '22

Oooh I'll have to watch this. I loved him in Mare of Easttown.

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u/WholeNineNards Sep 22 '22

When he walked up to the neighbor in the hallway about the smell, holy shit was that spooky.

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u/SQUID_FUCKER Sep 22 '22

The way Niecy Nash takes a step back and covers herself. She knew...

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u/KING_JELLYB3AN Sep 22 '22

He's a Super underrated actor tbh

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u/anonareyouokay Sep 22 '22

The 911 call in episode 2 fucked me up.

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u/Least_or_Greatest1 Sep 22 '22

Are we gonna sit back and pretend she wasn’t good?

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u/wooztheweb Sep 22 '22

I like how the clip is of that poor poor woman reliving the atrocities that were committed on her brother by a monster and decades later we're like "wow they recreated her trauma very accurately, they even got a great actor to play the guy who drilled holes in her brothers head and poured acid in it".

How about we let it just fucking die and stop acting like all this is anything more than morbid fascination at the expense of real tragedies.

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u/ghostofyourmom Sep 22 '22

True Crime fascination and pop culture media isn't going away any time soon.

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u/Genuinely_Crooked Sep 22 '22

I think people should know what happened and that it did not have to. They should know that the cops were given opportunities to stop it, but they didn't due to racism and homophobia. They should know how the media neglected to cover the disappearances of boys and men of color. People should know that we do not live in a system designed to protect us. People are more likely to learn that story and demand a different one in the future if that story is told well.

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u/CamBoBB Sep 22 '22

Massive difference in glorifying it and capturing what really happened. Only watched the first episode, but this didn’t strike me as glorifying it. Maybe later episodes will come off that way, and I’ll eat my words.

But if you don’t like it, don’t watch it. You’re essentially yelling at the sky here. It’s pretty normal for people to be fascinated by profoundly morbid occurrences. It’s why people slow down at car accidents even if they’re averse to gore or blood. It’s normal for people to wanna learn about bloody history. The OJ trial was re-done on FX and won Emmy’s. Were you screaming about it then? Do you follow re-enactments of WW2 and harp on how disgusting it is? That’d be weird, because I’ve heard of interviews with veterans who watched Saving Private Ryan and greatly appreciated that it was so realistic. That it captured what they went thru, even while admitting how hard it was to watch. You get to feel however you feel about the show. That’s the beauty of freedom. But whining about it thru other’s trauma (victims you likely have never met or know personally) is completely off base.

You’re projecting your values of tragedy onto others. And pretending like it didn’t happen at all is arguably more detrimental to society than revisiting it. Yes, there are plenty of instances where these things are glorified (like the Bundy one with Effron). This Dahmer version looks and feels like a true representation of history.

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u/Sandalssucks Sep 22 '22

How many movies are they going to make called monster?

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u/tyrannosnorlax Sep 22 '22

Probably five.

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u/AggressiveGift7542 Sep 22 '22

interestingly wiki says there's 20 films and 7 series so far. probabily more will come

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u/tyrannosnorlax Sep 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote Giggle Lawyer Up

Yeah, nah, that’s wrong. It’s five.

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u/Myke190 Sep 22 '22

2 mon 2 ster

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u/Pipupipupi Sep 22 '22

Can't wait for mon57er. It's going to redeem the series after M56.

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u/waggie21 Sep 22 '22

Monster: Mash

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u/Jodandesu Sep 22 '22

2 mon 2 ster - Tokyo Drift.

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u/TheSentientPurpleGoo Sep 22 '22

monster 2: electric chair boogaloo.

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u/public_enemy_obi_wan Sep 22 '22

Monst3r

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u/Takre Sep 22 '22

Monster 4: The Monster M4sh.

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u/rudyjewliani Sep 22 '22

Monster5: An origin story.

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u/SometimesAware Sep 22 '22

Welcome to the Monster Cinematic Universe. We can just call it the MCU for short.

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u/cyrilhent Sep 22 '22

It's almost like we need a company to manage them. Let's call it Monsters, Inc

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u/hiperf1 Sep 22 '22

At least one more

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u/Pynkkoala Sep 22 '22

Maybe 111....to stick with the logo?

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u/TexasLoriG Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

I am so glad they included this woman's victim impact statement in the series. It's an important part of the story.

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u/johnwayne2413 Sep 22 '22

How did Dahmer get away with killing so many people before he was caught?

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u/crappy80srobot Sep 22 '22

Homophobia, racism, and police incompetence combined. They lead a naked guy with a hole in his head back to him in one instance. Hell people were bitching about the smell for a long time and they took some BS story about dead fish. They should have nailed him for murder way before his body count got so high. It's a fucked up story all the way around.

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u/TheBaddestPatsy Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Just to amend one thing. The “guy” was also a 14 year old child. Dahmer managed to convince the cop it was a “lover’s quarrel.” It says a lot about how long brown boys have been seen as men when they’re in danger, or when it’s to the advantage of a white person.

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u/Dinal108 Sep 22 '22

He managed to convince the cops that the boy was drunk and they were having a lovers quarrel, he convinced them he was 19 and that he was fine just the night before with the proof of semi nude photos of said boy he that last night. The cops told the women to stay out of it and mind their own buisness

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u/shooismik Sep 22 '22

It broke my heart seeing that- I just can’t fathom. There was so so so so much racism going into why this all happened

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u/bluelightsonblkgirls Sep 22 '22

Yea 2 black women were trying to help the black boy — he was naked and bleeding and the women tried to advocate for him but the cops told them to mind their business.

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u/ryancarton Sep 22 '22

If they just id’d dahmer and see he was a sexual offender or the boy he would have been caught. Sickening. And those cops ended up having long careers after being reinstated too.

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u/Genuinely_Crooked Sep 22 '22

One of them, John Balcerzack, became the president of the Milwaukee Police Association.

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u/vancouversportsbro Sep 24 '22

Inexcusable. The series summed that whole situation up well. They had the phone call on the neighbour calling Officer Ballsack and he's like "no mam, they're lovers". Not surprised they promoted that idiot to President.

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u/ZakkCat Sep 23 '22

Oh hell no! That’s awful

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u/Revolutionary-Ad3126 Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

I’m pretty sure the kid the original commenter is talking about here was Konerak Sinthasomphone and he was Laotian, not black.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balcerzak

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u/learn2earn89 Sep 23 '22

I think the boy was southeast Asian, not black

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u/procyonoides_n Sep 23 '22

Asian American kid, and from a Laotian refugee family no less. Awful story.

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u/tequilaearworm Sep 23 '22

Why did they cast like a 20 year old in that part? It got so lost because of that, how young that victim was. If you see pictures of him he's a BABY.

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u/Primary-Ganache6199 Sep 25 '22

Do you prefer to have a 14 year old kid naked and stumbling and acting in sexually intimate scenes?

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u/SkepticalVir Sep 22 '22

A number of things. Ostracized gay community which kept things pretty low key. Poor investigative process by police and some intelligence/charisma from Dahmer. I haven’t seen this doc but you should read his wiki or just read up on him. Very nasty but fascinating. Guy was fucking corpses after beheading them. Stuffed a whole body in a suitcase and carried home from a hotel.

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u/JOMO_Kenyatta Sep 22 '22

He also attacked mostly POC. Asians and african Americans.

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u/Honigkuchenlives Sep 22 '22

Racism and homophobia

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u/etherealparadox Sep 22 '22

Police incompetence, mostly.

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u/FetchShockTake3 Sep 22 '22

Hey look shit hasn’t changed.

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u/senbei616 Sep 22 '22

If you read about or listen to a lot of true crime the police having no fucking clue what they're doing is pretty common.

Case in point Joel Rifkin and Charles Starkweather.

I'm fairly certain an average moderately intelligent person with a decent amount of follow through could get away with killing people indefinitely. Half the serial killers you read about only get caught because they stopped giving a shit or let shit get to their head and got sloppy.

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u/Manthalyn Sep 22 '22

The police were fairly incompetent when it came to gay men. They assumed that Dahmer and some of his victims were involved in lover’s quarrels and wouldn’t look into them

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u/IfICouldStay Sep 22 '22

"Uh, this very young looking man seems to be delirious, bleeding and terrified."

"Oh, that's my lover. He's 19 and drunk. I'll get him home safe."

"Alrighty then. Have yourself a nice evening."

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u/VorAbaddon Sep 22 '22

To add to this, the officer in question also:

  • Threatened to arrest the young women defending that victim, who was later murder by hydrochloric acid injected DIRECTLY into his brain

  • Made homophobic comments calling it into the station.

  • Dismissed the young women's mother who called the next day. Making further on record homophobic comments

  • four or five victims later, one of whom was killed when dahmer poured boiling water into holes trpaned into the victims skull, the cop got fired when his gross negligence was revealed.

  • The union fought for over a year to get him his job back. They won.

  • He was voted officer of the year during the year he was mostly suspended because of how poorly he was treated, in their mind.

  • Became the police union president

  • Retired with honors in 2020... with a nice fat pension

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u/Blamrica Sep 22 '22

Not injected acid, he drilled a fucking hole through his skull and then poured it in

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u/wheredMyArmourGo Sep 22 '22

ALSO THE TWO OFFICERS CALLED BY THE WITNESSES THEN ESCORTED THE BOY BACK TO DAHMER’S APARTMENT, SMELLED THE ROTTING CORPSE IN DAHMERS BEDROOM, AND LEFT. The boy had been raped. He was naked with blood on his legs and head. He was covered only by the women who found him’s blanket. His head had drill holes in it so Dahmer could get the needle through his skull to put acid in his brain with the hopes of the boys surviving but without control of their thoughts or body so he could have a living sex zombie.

When the police were fired for bringing the boy back to his apartment, they were later REHIRED a couple years later where at least one worked until his retirement a few years ago where they tweeted a congratulations and thanks for his years on the force.

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u/illihcallan Sep 22 '22

Why do you say the officer instead of naming and shaming the guy? For those that don't know too much about the topic.

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u/FuckingKadir Sep 22 '22

Lots of people will say "one bad apple" or "things are better now" but retired in fucking 2020 with honors.

ACAB. ALL cops. Bad ones don't stick around and run the show for 50 years if they're the exception rather than the rule.

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u/johnwayne2413 Sep 22 '22

Wow, this why

F U C K

C O P S

&

F U C K

T H E I R

U N I O N S

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u/Pie_Head Sep 22 '22

And people wonder why I'm ACAB... fucking sick assholes the lot of them

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u/Stickystickyjabjab Sep 22 '22

It was also because his victims were POC and the police didn't care enough to help them (big surprise there /s).

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u/Khanstant Sep 22 '22

Police are fairly incompetant, period.

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u/Illustrious_Formal73 Sep 22 '22

Cops sucked ass and literally brought a victim that ran away back to Dahmer.

Especially since Dahmer was a convicted sex offender out on parole when cops had been called on him multiple times.

Witnesses "I heard screams and it smells like death."

Dahmer "meat in the freezer went bad."

Cops "well that's good enough for me."

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u/Strict-Management-32 Sep 22 '22

Most of his victims were black and brown gay men. One victim, injured, naked, and dazed, whose brother had earlier been attacked by Dahmer, escaped and was returned to him by police. So racism, homophobia, and the typical incompetence of the police.

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u/Puddlingon Sep 22 '22

Eating the evidence

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u/ShortOneSausage Sep 22 '22

I highly recommend listening to the Last Podcast on the Left series about him. They do a good job of pointing out just how he was able to keep going for so long. It was mostly due to police incompetence and the fact that they just didn’t give a fuck about the gay community. They even returned one of his victims to him after finding him wandering around with battery acid in his brain if IIRC.

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u/Bleblebob Sep 22 '22

The vast majority of it was Police Incompetence.

Jeffrey preyed on communities that the police had no interest in protecting.

In one instance a shitty cop gave a naked victim with a hole drilled into his head back to Dahmer because they didn't wanna deal with the gay community at all.

Fun(awful) fact, that cop actually remained a cop until his retirement in 2020. I think he just moved districts and got rehired.

I remember the police department that he retired at tweeted out a congratulations to him when he retired thanking him for his police work. His police work that allowed one of the biggest serial killers to continue killing.

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u/ComplexMoth Sep 22 '22

Original footage has better camera work...

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u/LavishCow Sep 22 '22

It was shot in one take too

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u/Odin043 Sep 22 '22

She has no prior acting credits either.

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u/DEFY_member Sep 22 '22

I heard that she broke her toe in this scene.

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u/Kellidra Sep 22 '22 Helpful

Oh? I don't see a helmet anywhere...

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u/legendhairymonkey Sep 22 '22 Wholesome

The original was shot by a court camera operator, who would pan, zoom out, crash in or do whatever to follow and record what is happening in the courtroom. Stylistically mimicking those shots would look out of place and feel like a jarring change in the film. They're replicating the moment but not the fact that it was shot by a court camera if that makes sense. It makes more sense to stick with the shooting style used in the rest of the series.

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u/Benneck123 Sep 22 '22

This makes surprisingly much sense

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u/_Gunga_Din_ Sep 22 '22

No no no, Netflix bad.

/s

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u/Renewed_RS Sep 22 '22

Would be cool if they did use the court camera style though

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u/legendhairymonkey Sep 22 '22

throughout the whole series or just for the court sequence?

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u/Renewed_RS Sep 22 '22

I don't know if you've seen the series but it already uses myriad camera techniques because it switches POV. It really wouldn't be all that jarring for them to incorporate that style you described so well, that we all recognise as a court room camera operator.

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u/Skullcrusher Sep 22 '22

Hard to judge camerawork when half the shot is cut down here. I think it works better in context, whereas the original camerawork probably didn't fit the vibe and the rhythm of the rest of the show.

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u/FEAR_LORD_DUCK Sep 22 '22

no way to recreate the emotion on the right but the Netflix version did it's best, it seems...

what's real is real and sometimes can't be emulated perfectly.

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u/Riamu_Y Sep 22 '22

I think she did an exceptionally good job given the losing circumstances. Shes playing a real person who was so emotionally distressed, and she does a great job at emulating it

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u/mrkgian Sep 22 '22

She crushed it, id cast her for other things. It’s just the whole serial killer trial and Dahlmer as a whole has gotten a bit dry

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u/bangsoul Sep 22 '22

Unless you have the right actor and the right time to repeat until you get it. There are famous cuts that have taken days to make.

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u/energetic-dad Sep 22 '22

Are you saying this isn't the right actor? She seemed pretty good for the role, although obviously I can't compare the audio

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u/Superlativesuperness Sep 22 '22

Can you give us some examples please?

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u/CaffeineSippingMan Sep 22 '22

Funny, the left seemed over the top, until you watched the right side.

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u/bearbarebere Sep 22 '22

I feel this way about 3D models. Post some on Reddit and everyone goes “NEEDS MORE GRUNGE, OBJECTS DONT LOOK LIKE THAT IRL” but really there are some (a few) cases where it does.

Made me realize that what matters in art that tries to be realistic isn’t realism, but what the audience perceive as real and are expecting ‘real’ to be, even if it’s more unrealistic than reality.

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u/fremeer Sep 22 '22

Sometimes real life can be more over the top then movies. So much so that it a movie actually mimics real life audiences will think the movie is too contrived or fake.

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u/OniLewds Sep 22 '22

It can most of the time, but it takes a lot of time, talent, and taste.

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u/ElboDelbo Sep 22 '22

Real emotion on screen looks...well, goofy.

There's an intensity to actual emotion that can't be faked.

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u/ambisinister_gecko Sep 22 '22

It's not that it can't be faked, imo. It's that sometimes, the most accurate portrayal of it doesn't exactly feel real anyway.

Because reality is awkward.

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u/thortastic Sep 22 '22

I cannot imagine having to look into the eye of my brother’s murderer and torturer, as he sits relatively comfortably with police protection, when every fiber of your being wants to make him feel the same pain. And he just sits there emotionless, barely even looking at the families he’s destroyed and broken.

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u/myTwoCents9999 Sep 22 '22

I applaud the judge's choice to permit her Victim Impact Statement to be made with emotion, and not interrupt her.

As a human who has made Victim Impact Statements in court, and interrupted (twice) by the judge for merely raising my arm to point at the criminal, this scene scares me as to what insults could have been added atop injury....

I vividly recall risking Contempt of Court charges for speaking out of turn when sentencing was being read for the case I had just made my Victim Impact Statement on ...DOJ recommended 20 yrs, but judge was giving only a 12 year sentence, and saying that the 15 years extended supervision would make up for the nearly 50% reduction in prison sentence - uh, no, it will not.

This woman was risking Disorderly Conduct charges.

(I'm a Wisconsin resident who lived in Milwaukee during this trial, and am fully aware of Wisconsin's Injustice system).

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u/Kitchen-Pen7559 Sep 22 '22

The hair is on the wrong side. It's all fake.

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u/Rickyy111 Sep 22 '22

That’s not even the same girl

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u/seeafish Sep 22 '22

0/10 literally unwatchable

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u/southern_boy Sep 22 '22

I'll bet the actor who plays Dahmer didn't even nibble on any human flesh 😕

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u/Poop_Taxi Sep 22 '22

Should have gotten Shia LaBeouf to do it, he's big into the method acting thing

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u/psycholepzy Sep 22 '22

Actual Cannibal Shia LaBeouf?

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u/osktox Sep 22 '22

Yup. You're right. I don't buy it at all.

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u/ohdearitsrichardiii Sep 22 '22

BURN DOWN NETFLIX!!!

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u/RNW1215 Sep 22 '22

Go through all the trouble of getting the same t shirt and sweater.... but part the hair on the wrong side?

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u/Plastic_Thought_9516 Sep 22 '22

I think they do it on purpose. I read an article about how a show was "perfect" to reality with custom made jackets, and the coat closed the other side. It had to be intentional

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u/crimdelacrim Sep 22 '22

It could be that or just the actress they chose has a part in her hair on the other side.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22

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u/FlowSoSlow Sep 22 '22

How do you do that? If I part my hair anywhere other than where it normally is it looks totally wack.

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u/luckyfucker13 Sep 22 '22

To be fair, if you have cowlicks that get in the way, you can’t part your hair which ever way you want. Sometimes someone’s hair only looks “right” going in one direction and not the other.

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u/jared_number_two Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Maybe they flipped the image to make the eye-lines make more spacial sense to the viewer? And the spacial confusion might not have been seen until post. I haven’t watched the episode though.

Edit: I'm an idiot. Her shirt would have been mirrored.

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u/Whazzits Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

Imagine being the woman on the left in 2022 and seeing your clone walk on camera and recreate the most genuine outpouring of emotion you've ever had. I'm sure they contacted her ahead of time to make sure she was OK with it, but I wonder if the hair part is there as a little way to make it seem only 99% real to her instead of 100%

Edit: lmao nah see comment below there was no goodwill involved here

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u/TheWalkingDead91 Sep 22 '22

Optimistic to assume they contacted her to make sure if she was ok with it. More like contacted their own attorneys to make sure she couldn’t sue them for doing it, then proceeded. If I had to guess anyways.

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u/micaub Sep 22 '22

I was totally distracted by the Gulf War in 1991, that I didn’t realize that Dahmer was attempting and caught that same year. I was so naïve in 1991.

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u/comrad_yakov Sep 22 '22

What was your reaction to the soviet collapse then? I was born in '00 so I'm really curious, since that also happened in 1991

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u/brainmoney Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

I was born in '81. My parents made my brother and I watch all of these important moments on TV. Some biggies:

  • On CNN, watching Gorbachev retreating to his house during the fall of the Soviet Union, I think after he resigned. I remember a helicopter shot of the black car driving up a winding road. I've never found it on youtube, so I can't verify it.
  • Fall of the Berlin wall.
  • Tienanmen square. I remember watching the tank man video as it happened, probably on tape delay, and my mom had her hands on the remote ready to turn it off, because she thought we were about to watch someone die on live TV. It was the first time anyone had seen that video.
  • The start of the Gulf War. I remember my mom crying in front of the TV as the invasion began. I also remember the cool stickers we were given at school, with eagles and guns and flags. We (my 4th grade class) were all pretty stoked about how much ass we were kicking, and I didn't understand yet why my parents were upset. Crazy propaganda though.

For most of these I was young, so the full impact of the events I didn't really understand at the time. Obviously, they have stuck with me though; for each, I remember what room I was in when we were watching, who was there, etc.

-- edit --

  • Jesus, how could I forget the Challenger. I was younger, 5 years old I think, but was a huge space fan, and we always tried to watch launches. My mom rented the entire Cosmos series from the library, and we binged it in a few days. I don't remember watching the Challenger launch live, but I DO remember watching the coverage at my aunt's house later that day. That put a considerable dent in my plan to become an astronaut.

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u/nomadofwaves Sep 22 '22

The only really important thing I remember was seeing the first space shuttle that blew up from my back yard. I remember being outside watching it and then just a cloud of smoke and my mom running inside to the TV.

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u/fetusy Sep 22 '22

The Challenger was wild. I think it was maybe the first time our generation was made viscerally aware that really horrible shit happens sometimes in the world. Like watching your dad get hurt for the first time. Something you weren't even aware could happen before that moment.

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u/Rayraydavies Sep 22 '22

Similar age here.

I have a box of unopened Desert Storm trading cards I picked up at a sale in the early '00s. Your comment not only reminded me of this, but how twisted and sick that is. Bubble gum and all if memory serves!

I remember seeing this courtroom clip as a child and realizing that her emotion was profound and rarely captured (at the time) "on tape." Truly heart-wrenching in hindsight.

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u/inthegym1982 Sep 22 '22

Born in 82. We were stationed in West Germany until a bit before the wall came down & we actually have a piece somewhere. Another military family friend gifted it to my parents. I remember being in class and kids being pulled to go say bye to their dads as the 1st Gulf War was ramping up. My dad was retiring so although I was really scared he’d have to go at first, ultimately he didn’t. He wasn’t happy — too young for Vietnam and too old for Kuwait.

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u/queerinmesoftly Sep 23 '22

Unfortunately the Isbell’s are against the show using this scene. They are very upset. It has re-traumatized them.

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u/Seryous Sep 22 '22

I still don't understand why people give monsters like this guy the time of day. No point in making a movie about it.

Burn him at the stake, then forget his name forever. Films like this enable people who are already sick to become worse by idolization, regardless how focused they are on the victims story.

They don't make a documentary because they don't make huge profits. Rather try and sell a dramatization to line their pockets.

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u/scarletuba Sep 22 '22

A quick Google reveals unsurprising but extremely disappointing evidence that we really don't care about victims.

Errol Lindsey was 19 years old when he was tortured and murdered. He lived part of a whole life, had emotions and dreams, but the only thing Google wants us to know about him was how he died. He was a person who deserves to be remembered. His sister obviously cared about him. Who was he?

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u/krista_bear Sep 22 '22

The victim’s family is still out there, and having to watch all these adaptations being made for entertainment is no doubt retraumatizing.

From Errol’s cousin: https://twitter.com/ericthulhu/status/1572997334887284745?s=46&t=4FDn9m5aLD-ua5x1epjh2A

These families will never see any kind of compensation for exploiting their pain.

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u/im4lonerdottie4rebel Sep 22 '22

Thank you, I feel the same way.

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u/Skrillz_14th Sep 22 '22

I was thinking the same thing. The first thing that popped up when I searched him up was a picture of his murderer. Honestly disgusting

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u/kiwiparadiseforever Sep 22 '22

It was so socially easy for Jeffrey to hunt and kill without anyone questioning him - or helping his victims - it’s unimaginably sad for his victims and their families. He doesn’t deserve notoriety or infamy at all.

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u/inn4d4rkplace Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

No. For the 100th time in true crime stories, cops didn’t wanna do their job.

Some of his victims made it out to authorities, they handed the victims back to the killer. Neighbors tried. Many came forward. It was the police that failed.

Edit for those who upvoted: Change begins locally. VOTE and also what u/Wonderlustish said

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u/aaronitallout Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

they handed the victims back to the killer

Guess what one of "they" is up to today!

He was recently the president of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Union!

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u/SkeetDavidson Sep 22 '22

He was "only" president from 2005-2009. He was awful at that job as well.

Black officer Alfonso Glover, who was charged with first-degree homicide for shooting an unarmed man, called Balcerzak to ask for support and was told the union couldn’t help him. This was the same union that supported the white officers who allegedly beat Frank Jude Jr. A despondent Glover committed suicide.

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u/MoleculesandPhotons Sep 22 '22

🎵🎵Tale as old as time. Song as old as rhyme. Pigs will do the leeeeeeaaaassst. 🎵🎵

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u/Pipupipupi Sep 22 '22

I mean, he wasn't black or innocent. Why would they do anything?

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u/DeepFriedDrywall Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

What? Many people, several of them being his neighbors, questioned him and tried to draw the attention of authorities to him. They were basically ignored because they were either poor, not white, gay, or a combination of the 3. It's estimated that 5 victims may have been spared if police listened to them. This show was made with a specific focus on the victims and the voices who went unheard in trying to get him caught.

One of his victims was a 14 year Laotian boy who had escaped, only to be handed back to Dahmer by police officers because they believed his bullshit story about them being a couple who got in a drunken argument, over the pleading of his neighbor who tried to point out that he was a child and hurt. The boy couldn't speak for himself because Dahmer had drilled a hole in his head and poured acid into it, which effectively lobotomized him.

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u/kickingscreaming Sep 22 '22

The boy couldn’t speak for himself because Dahmer had drilled a hole in his head and poured acid into it, which effectively lobotomized him.

I don’t know how to process this statement.

That level of impairment seems like it would be hard to miss unless they really wanted to, which is also horrifying to think about.

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u/DeepFriedDrywall Sep 22 '22

The full details are even worse than I had described originally, it's insane how he got away with it. Those officers were equally responsible for the death of that poor child.

Konerak Sinthasomphone was his name, and in a horrible twist of coincidence, he was the brother of a boy that Dahmer had molested years prior.

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u/SaveTheLadybugs Sep 22 '22

The worst part is he wasn’t just impaired. He was also naked and bleeding from multiple places, in particular I believe the head and the anus. So the police handed a naked, bleeding, mentally compromised child back into the hands of a guy pretending that’s all totally normal and the result of a “drunk fight, lol gay relationships amirite”

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u/aaronitallout Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

only to be handed back to Dahmer by police officers

People are always sharing this fact, and I always like adding that nothing has changed. One of the two officers that did so was the president of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Union about twelve years ago

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u/DeepFriedDrywall Sep 22 '22

Yep, the only "punishment" they received was paid leave... which is really just a free vacation. Shit doesn't change, cops suck worse now than they ever have before.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '22

The worst part is that they dropped him off at his apartment and he had a dead body in there. One of the officers states he detected a foul odor. They didnt check is ID because if they did, they would have seen he was a sex offender. The victim was the kids older BROTHER (he was 13). Of course the cops made homophobic jokes to the dispatcher. I feel so bad for the victims family.

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u/tungvu256 Sep 22 '22

i would think something is wrong if someone shows up on my door with a drilled hole in their head. cant believe cops didnt do anything. wow

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u/axxonn13 Sep 22 '22

This show was made with a specific focus on the victims and the voices who went unheard in trying to get him caught.

i think this is the one thing in the trailer that make me start watching it.

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u/Affectionate-Bag-733 Sep 22 '22

Original footage looks better directed than netflix.

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u/elibutton Sep 23 '22

I remember watching this on TV and it’s all over YouTube and the crime documentaries. And I’m the beginning I was just shocked and angry for her.

But now years later - I’ve lost 2 close family members I unexpectedly, my mom and my younger sister, and I’m still grieving. Now when I see her outrage it just makes me cry because I feel her. I know what it’s like to lose a loved one

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u/ascendinspire Sep 22 '22

This is one Netflix show I do not need to watch.

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u/Outrageous-Reserve91 Sep 22 '22

I'm sorry I pressed wrong award, this is truly heart breaking hearing ter gives me shivers and feel her pain

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u/Mettray Sep 22 '22

I’ve always had so much respect for Rita Isbell. She says and does what any sane loved one would in this case.

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u/drabee86 Sep 22 '22

Stop giving these monsters and their acts air time, it’s so fucked

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u/MakesMeSickMick Sep 22 '22

I wonder how Rita is doing today, I hope she's okay, I hope she's found peace.

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u/GurIllustrious4983 Sep 23 '22

Feel horrible for the family.